Are you religious?

2

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  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    You can't be religious while being atheist - it just doesn't make sense

  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    Yes you can. Atheism is not believing in God but religion is bigger than just God.
  • KGB_the_Russian_SpyKGB_the_Russian_Spy The Actually Rather Divided States of AmericaPosts: 3,668 ✭✭✭
    Buddhism doesn't believe in any gods, (or at least doesn't require you to) but it's still a religion.
    "Fairy tales are more than true, not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten"  ~Neil Gaiman
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    I don't believe that one can believe in a religion without being theist

  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    @NeiroAtOpelCc that's what most of people think but not all religion is solely based on the idea of God.
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    Trisha said:

    @NeiroAtOpelCc that's what most of people think but not all religion is solely based on the idea of God.

    I'm aware of that, but I don't believe theology is about god, but rather about religion - therefore my statement still stands

  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    edited May 2016
    That depends on how you define religion. Hinduism is (or probably was) not a theism dominated way of life, per se.

    It was originally visualized as a path people could follow, to make their lives on earth more enriching and bountiful spiritually.

    To give an example to explain the above lines , if you practice yoga, you're not practicing a religion but something that has the potential to add positivity in some way or other in your life.
    by Trisha
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    Hinduism
    ˈhɪndʊɪz(ə)m/
    noun
    a major religious and cultural tradition of South Asia, which developed from Vedic religion.

    Notice the highlighted word

  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    edited May 2016
    Hinduism is a religion, or a way of life,[note 1] found most notably in India and Nepal.
    -wiki

    Notice the words'way of life'.

    From a Western lexical standpoint, Hinduism like other faiths is appropriately referred to as a religion. In India the term dharma is preferred, which is broader than the western term "religion".
    -wikipedia
    by Trisha
  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    Hinduism includes a diversity of ideas on spirituality and traditions, but has no ecclesiastical order, no unquestionable religious authorities, no governing body, no prophet(s) nor any binding holy book; Hindus can choose to be polytheistic, pantheistic, monotheistic, monistic, agnostic, atheistic or humanist.[35][36][37] Because of the wide range of traditions and ideas covered by the term Hinduism, arriving at a comprehensive definition is difficult.[21]

    -Wikipedia
  • MichkovMichkov Posts: 105 ✭✭
    Isn't Atheistic religion just philosophy? Or am I simplifying this too much?
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    Atheistic religion isn't a thing.
    An atheist is someone who does not believe god or gods exist, and therefore is no theist. Religion requires deieties and thus Atheistic religion can't exist.

    An atheist does not believe gods exist or ever did and make up about half of the religiously unaffiliated crowd - the rest are undecided or agnostic (believe the concept could be true, but haven't found a religion to believe in)

  • MichkovMichkov Posts: 105 ✭✭

    Atheistic religion isn't a thing.

    An atheist is someone who does not believe god or gods exist, and therefore is no theist. Religion requires deieties and thus Atheistic religion can't exist.



    An atheist does not believe gods exist or ever did and make up about half of the religiously unaffiliated crowd - the rest are undecided or agnostic (believe the concept could be true, but haven't found a religion to believe in)

    I know that, you seem to know that as well. I'm just trying to see how Trisha comes to the conclusion that Hinduism allows for such a thing.
  • TrishaTrisha Posts: 298
    I realize that in some comments I am coming off as a religious fanatic sort of a person but I just want to provide little info about Hinduism, as it is usually misunderstood.
    When we say Hinduism is a religion, we are already oversimplifying it. It is more than that.

    People living in Indo-gangetic plain didn't follow any specific set of beliefs, everybody had different beliefs. And very much like today's world, there were range of beliefs from atheist to polytheist and everything in between.

    So all these beliefs were recorded, and written down. When we talk about Vedas we usually think it's related to religion, but it also has extensively talks about science, mathematics, astronomy and almost everything that took place on these plains.

    People living on Indus valley and Gangetic plains were called Hindus. Then a generic name was given to these varied beliefs, which was Hinduism. It was still not a religion, it was 'dharm' which roughly translates to 'a way of life'. But in the modern times it has been oversimplified as religion.
  • RolloRollo Operative 6081, MiniTrue Airstrip Three, OceaniaPosts: 1,898 ✭✭✭
    Atheistic religion isn't a thing.
    An atheist is someone who does not believe god or gods exist, and therefore is no theist. Religion requires deieties and thus Atheistic religion can't exist.

    An atheist does not believe gods exist or ever did and make up about half of the religiously unaffiliated crowd - the rest are undecided or agnostic (believe the concept could be true, but haven't found a religion to believe in)
    An athiest is someone who believes in the positive position that there is/are no god/s. A (without) theos (god). Atheists have a belief structure; ergo, if religion is a set of of behaviors and practices, then they have a religion of their own. It might not be organised but to suggest that atheists literally believe in nothing whatsoever is a lie.
    "I speak an infinite deal of nothing and I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

    I've written four books - you might like to buy them: Linky - Doobly Doo
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2016
    I do not agree with that Rollo. I didn't say or mean to imply 'believe in nothing', but merely not believing in gods.

    @Trisha makes sense. It shoild be clasified as a philosophy and not religion then I suppose.
    by NeiroAtOpelCc

  • RolloRollo Operative 6081, MiniTrue Airstrip Three, OceaniaPosts: 1,898 ✭✭✭
    "not believing in gods" - a theos.

    Philosophy (the love of knowledge), asks questions to do with matters like existence, knowledge, values, reason etc.

    Religion (re + lego, reason again), is concerned with behaviours and practices, which stems from what someone believes. Athiests believe that there are no gods. Ergo, their practices which result from this, constitute their own religion.
    Trisha said:

    When we say Hinduism is a religion, we are already oversimplifying it. It is more than that.

    @Trisha is saying that Hinduism is not a religion in the singular but something vastly more complex than that. I concur. Hinduism is vastly more complex.
    "I speak an infinite deal of nothing and I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

    I've written four books - you might like to buy them: Linky - Doobly Doo
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    I believe the word Religion merely represents poor use of words. I do not agree that atheism is a religion in the slightest. For one, the general understanding (far as I can tell) of what a religion is does not align with the idea that supposedly created the word, and more importantly, the only thing Atheists have in common is not believing there are or were gods. Believing the Superbowl exists doesn't make Superbowl a religion either.

  • RolloRollo Operative 6081, MiniTrue Airstrip Three, OceaniaPosts: 1,898 ✭✭✭

    Believing the Superbowl exists doesn't make Superbowl a religion either.

    Buying tickets to the Superbowl as a result of this belief, might constitute the expression of this though. Religion is what you do as a result of believing something.
    "I speak an infinite deal of nothing and I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

    I've written four books - you might like to buy them: Linky - Doobly Doo
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    By that metric any action is religion. If anything is, nothing is.

  • RolloRollo Operative 6081, MiniTrue Airstrip Three, OceaniaPosts: 1,898 ✭✭✭


    I would argue that something like this is a religious act and stems from Richard Dawkins' "Militant Atheism".

    He has often given talks and written about atheism with an intent to persuade.

    Doobly Doo:
    https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_dawkins_on_militant_atheism?language=en

    By that metric any action is religion. If anything is, nothing is.

    I think that everyone does have their own religion of sorts because everyone has a set of beliefs. That religion might not be organised or even specifically persuasive but to suggest that people aren't motivated by what they believe, I don't think holds true.
    "I speak an infinite deal of nothing and I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

    I've written four books - you might like to buy them: Linky - Doobly Doo
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    Who said anything about motivation?
    I see your point regarding the rest, but still cannot agree. For me religion means something else than for you. For me religion has to be something specific. It isn't something all sentient beings are simply because they think one way or the other about something.

  • clausitclausit EnglandPosts: 7,809 ✭✭✭✭
    There seems to be a problem with definitions here. @NeiroAtOpelCc seems to define religion as involving a belief in god. so by the definition asking if you can be atheist and religious is a ridiculous question, since you've defined religion as involving a belief in God. But I think we can still agree that there are non-'religious' structures that still have many of the same properties as religion in terms of social organisation, unified philosophy, traditions, common practices ect. Of course 'Atheism' is not a religion in the same way that 'not-blue' is not a colour, but you can still have atheistic organisations that look, act and in almost every way are indistinguishable from religions.

    Also the definition of God is questionable to me. Like what counts as God? Buddhism does believe in an underlying structure to the universe, though that structure may or may not be sentient, does that count? The scientific method also believes in an underlying structure to the universe, specifically that of logic and causality. There is no way to prove that that structure holds or will always hold, but it seems to work alright so we just assume it does.

    Although I will disagree with @Rollo on a very important point, there is a difference between religion and belief. Religion is an organised structure that dictates a way of life. Like I guess you could argue that all humans have a religion of emotion and logic dictated by the ways our brain function, but that's not really a useful or interesting definition of the term. It's about the different ways people organise their lives in a general sense, not in the specific details. No two people have exactly the same beliefs or behave in exactly the same way, yet we can still label people as being part of the same religion because they follow the same overarching organisational principles.
    You will come to a place where the streets are not marked. Some windows are lighted but mostly they're darked. A place you could sprain both your elbow and chin. Do you dare to stay out? Do you dare to go in? How much can you lose? How much can you win?
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    I would thini the definition of god would include it being a sentient entity of some sort. It could be a person that ascended to a cloud with a trifork or the computer software that is the architect of the matrix - but a structure that can't make choices, can't be a god.

    As for religion - I'm more comfortable calling non-god based ones philosophies of life as, in my understanding, a religion requires an element of faith - a philosophy does not.

  • RolloRollo Operative 6081, MiniTrue Airstrip Three, OceaniaPosts: 1,898 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2016


    a religion requires an element of faith - a philosophy does not.

    Sure it does.

    Faith is merely confidence that a thing does or is what it is supposed to do/be.

    One Dollar is a fiduciary instrument (fiduciary meaning "in faith"). The only reason that it is acceptable is because everyone thinks that everyone else has faith in the currency.
    Loss of confidence in the currency would be a very serious event and would lead to all kinds of financial chaos.

    Philosophy as inquiry into the nature of ethics, knowledge and existence etc. very much requires faith; especially when it comes to matters of metaphysics and epistemology.
    by Rollo
    "I speak an infinite deal of nothing and I am not bound to please thee with my answers."

    I've written four books - you might like to buy them: Linky - Doobly Doo
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    I don't know half the words you just used, but I guess the word faith is used in different ways.

  • RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭
    Nope, I'm Atheist. Some of religion may be based loosely on true stories but it's mostly all fiction. Kind of like a Hollywood movie that's based on a true story, things were changed from what actually happened to make the story more interesting. Though religious stories have been told and retold so many times now that the lines between fiction and reality are really blurred. Obviously any mention of magic never happened because we know now that magic is pure fantasy and illusion but anything beyond that is some what plausible. The important thing is there is no such thing as a God, being a purely magical entity he has never existed. He didn't make us, we made him.
    Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭

    Nope, I'm Atheist. Some of religion may be based loosely on true stories but it's mostly all fiction. Kind of like a Hollywood movie that's based on a true story, things were changed from what actually happened to make the story more interesting. Though religious stories have been told and retold so many times now that the lines between fiction and reality are really blurred. Obviously any mention of magic never happened because we know now that magic is pure fantasy and illusion but anything beyond that is some what plausible. The important thing is there is no such thing as a God, being a purely magical entity he has never existed. He didn't make us, we made him.

    I agree with the spirit of your post, but not your movie analogy . It more closely resembles the Rupert Murdoch's news networks. It may or may not be based on real events, but it's been modified to instill the morale of a corporation (I count institutions like the catholic church and isis' interpretation of the qur'an as corporations in this instance).

  • RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭
    I'm not familiar with Rupert Murdoch's news networks so I don't really get that comparison. "It may or may not be based on real events, but it's been modified to instill the morale of a corporation" That's pretty much what I was saying to begin with but you said it better.
    Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!
  • NeiroAtOpelCcNeiroAtOpelCc Denmark (Als)Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭
    It's a wee bit offtopic, but he's the owner of news corp ; and they don't just operate in the us
    http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

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