Is it wrong to dislike something even though it has a good message?

RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭
I decided to post this in the TV section because this thread is mostly about the cartoon series Wonder over Yonder.

The message of the series seems to be to treat others with kindness not hate. Which is a great message that I totally agree with and would normally support... but I really don't this show.

Aside from the fact that it has a good message there's really nothing else good about it. Wonder is annoying and inconsistent. I can't tell if he's completely clueless about Lord Hater and just defeats him on accident or if he actually knows that Hater is a bad guy and intentionally does the things he does to attack him with kindness. Some times it looks intentional other times it looks like a total accident. Some times it seems like he knows Hater is a bad guy other times he seems totally clueless.

Plus the villain's name is Lord Hater... Hate-er He has the word hate literally in his name. And he looks like a spoof of Skeletor from Masters of the Universe. He couldn't be any more obviously a villain unless he wore a t-shirt that says "I am the Villain" on it. (Which I actually did in a movie I made in high school which is available on my YouTube channel.) I wouldn't really have a problem with this except... well 80's cartoon villains had better plans than this guy... What is it exactly that he's trying to do? Actually that's the wrong question, I know what he wants to do but HOW exactly does he plan to do that. I don't ever see him do anything. I mean even Power Rangers villains are more active than this guy. They try the same thing over and over again expecting different results but at least they do things. This guy seems to only talk about taking over the universe but never seems to mention how exactly he plans on doing that. No wander he's so easily defeated by a guy who has never actually attacked him.

The show seems over the top cheesy. Like it should be directed at a much younger audience. Like the preschool age kids. Yet this show is targeted at older kids. They couldn't of made a more mature show with the same message?

Here are just some ideas that I think would make the show better.

First of all, make Wonder intelligent. They can keep his attitude just make him clearly and consistently realize that bad things happen and have him intentionally fix those problems in an intelligent way. Don't just make him fix stuff without even realizing it was ever broken.

Secondly tone down Lord Hater... A LOT. Don't make him a universe conquering dictator with an army at his command who for some reason doesn't actually do anything evil. That's way to big of a villain for something like this. Just make him like a school yard bully... except instead of a school yard he's a fellow traveler like Wonder, he's just mean. Have him actually do some bad things that Wonder can fix instead of something so big it's totally not believable and is never shown.

Instead of a huge army of Eye ball men, how about just the one.

Either that or move the show to Disney Jr.

I like the message I really do. I just think the way they're going about it is a little too silly for the intended audience. I mean it's OK to be a little silly but if you go to far I don't think anyone believes the message anymore. Like I look at this show and rather than thinking oh it's teaching kids about kindness, I'm thinking if someone went up against an army like that in real life he'd be shot in an instant. Rather than thinking oh Wander's really nice I'm just thinking he's an ignorant moron totally obvious to his surroundings.

A better way to put it is that I don't think the show is really teaching kids to be nice to others. I think it's trying to but failing. I think what it's really teaching them is that the only way to be happy is to be totally ignorant of all the evil happening around you. I don't like the idea that you can't be nice and intelligent. It has to be nice and ignorant or intelligent and bitter.
Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!

Comments

  • kyougokazumikyougokazumi Osaka, JapanPosts: 11
    I haven't heard of the show you're talking about, but I think it's completely normal if you don't like something with a good message. Especially with video, because so much goes into the final product. There is the original idea, containing the general message you mentioned, then you have the plot, the storyline built around it, the characters, all the actual dialogues, and that's not even going into the picture itself. One can dislike the way it was shot, or the drawing style in case of cartoons. It seems to me very natural to dislike something if, for example, you think the authors did a poor job writing the story to convey the idea or the message behind it, or if you don't like the final picture.
    For me, True Detective was a good example. I kinda liked the concept, and the storyline, but the way they constructed the actual video didn't do a particularly good job of conveying it, imo, and because of that, although I would probably enjoy a novel with that story, I can't say I liked the series.
  • RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭
    The main things I don't like about the series... It takes place in space. The characters are all aliens from what I can tell. I haven't seen any human characters so there's really no one you can relate to. The main reason why the Doctor almost always travels with a human companion is so there is someone there that the audience can relate to. You don't get that with this show.

    The other issue with them being in space, there's no ship... as far as I can tell the main character just rides his alien talking horse companion from one planet to the next. How are they surviving in the vacuum of space with no protection what so ever and how can a horse, even an alien horse travel in space? She doesn't even have any wings so I don't get how she manages to fly at all let alone achieve escape velocity. The whole thing just breaks my suspension of disbelief. A science fiction, even though it is mostly fiction, should at least be able to get the science part right.

    The main character is dressed like a cowboy which makes me think there should be a little bit of a western style to the series as well but he doesn't act like a cowboy. The voice actor just really doesn't fit how they designed the character to look. Or maybe it's the other way around, maybe they should of ditched the whole western theme all together because it's not integrated into the show AT ALL. Firefly did a great job of combining these two genres that seeming shouldn't be able to interconnect at all. This show they just slapped a western costume on a character, gave him a horse, and then stopped there. That's as far as the western theme goes.

    Finally, the main villain of the series seems to be a rip off of Emperor Zerg from the Buzz Lightyear cartoon series. Even having an entire army full of small identical looking aliens. Their personalities are also very similar.

    The animation isn't that bad, the stories are fairly simple but with a good message, but the actual characters and the way they interact with each other and the fictional universe they live in is just terrible. It's like no thought was put into it what so ever.

    The other thing is, even though it's a good message, the show hammers it in every ten seconds. Constantly and blatantly stating the moral of the story. And it's the same message in every episode. It has nothing else to offer other than this one good message that they keep repeating over and over again. It's good to have like an episode of a series devoted to the moral lesson of treating others with kindness but do we really need a whole entire series devoted to it?
    Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!
  • kyougokazumikyougokazumi Osaka, JapanPosts: 11
    All of those are completely legitimate reasons for not liking a show. Moreover, it seems to me only natural to enjoy some aspects of a piece of content and having issues with some other things in it.

    However, when it comes to the problem of "a whole entire series devoted to the moral lesson of treating others with kindness", that, I guess, depends on the show. I'm not sure what show you are talking about here and its genre, but there is a niche for those moral lesson based things, and that is children entertainment.

    Coming to think about it, an overwhelming majority of kids shows are exactly that, aren't they? They provide a story engaging enough for the intended viewers while teaching something about the world at the same time. And in this category the messages have to be as clear as they can get, because younger viewers will not dig deep into the story for some hidden meaning. Moreover, they have not yet got tired of those general wise statements considered common sense for adults. Probably that is part of the reason why movies "for kids" seem so naive when we grow up.

    Is the series you're talking about maybe meant for younger viewers? If not, the creators obviously did a poor job of choosing the methods to convey their message.
  • RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure what show you are talking about here and its genre, but there is a niche for those moral lesson based things, and that is children entertainment.

    I said it in the first post. Wander Over Yander. It is a cartoon aimed at children but I don't think it's made for kids as young as you're thinking. I could be wrong, I obviously can't read your mind.

    Coming to think about it, an overwhelming majority of kids shows are exactly that, aren't they? They provide a story engaging enough for the intended viewers while teaching something about the world at the same time.

    That would be every Pre-school children's show ever made. However they typically aren't that blatant about the lessons and will teach a new lesson in each episode not the same one for a while series. Plus this isn't a pre-school show... it's actually intended for older kids. I believe it comes on around the time that most kids would be getting home from school which is also about the time that the pre-school line up ends. These shows usually don't try to be educational since their target audience is old enough to actually be in a class room rather than in front of a TV at home.

    And in this category the messages have to be as clear as they can get, because younger viewers will not dig deep into the story for some hidden meaning.

    That's not really true. I've seen some adults have trouble figuring out the lessons pre-school shows were suppose to be teaching. Some of them are painfully obvious but others not so much. Plus it's a myth that little kids are too stupid to figure it out for themselves. They're uneducated, not unintelligent. I don't really like shows that treat children like they're all idiots.

    One of my favorite preschool cartoons is Transformers Rescue Bots but not for the reason you're thinking. Yeah I'm a huge Transformers fan but I was going to pass on the series due to the fact it's not meant for the typical audience. It's meant for kids under the age of 4. I like it because it's written in a way that treats children like people. They also realized that parents are going to be watching this with their kids and wrote it to appeal to them as well. With most preschool shows, I will have them on for the kids to watch but if they're not paying attention to it I'll immediately turn it off because it's just annoying to me. But with Rescue Bots, I was quite surprised that I actually like watching the show even without any kids around.

    One of the things about it is that Transformers has been around for so long that a lot of fans of the original cartoon and kids who grew up in the 90's with Beast Wars are old enough to have kids of their own now. Even though it's really not made for us, it's made for our kids, the show does include references to things from those old cartoons that the target audience wouldn't even know about. Plus they also had a car in the show that was designed with the same modifications as Back to the Future. It's not a time machine, it just looks like that car. They can't actually mention the real life vehicle or the movie for copy right reasons but the reference is there. And then it had the lessons that very from one episode to the next. Some of them are quite obvious others like I said, even leave some adults wandering what the heck it's teaching kids.

    I think it's really hard to write a show that can appeal to two entirely different generations. That's probably why most kids shows annoy me even when I like them. They aren't made with the parents in mind, just the kids. But other shows annoy me because they treat children like total morons and aren't great for parents either. The shows that are generally appealing for both kids and adults... are the shows for older kids not the preschool shows.

    Is the series you're talking about maybe meant for younger viewers? If not, the creators obviously did a poor job of choosing the methods to convey their message.

    Considering everything I've said above, it would be better if it was moved to Disney Jr. and taken off Disney XD. It seems better suited for much younger kids. Though it's still not great... for anyone really... I'd rather watch someone else with the same message that did it much better.
    Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!
  • kyougokazumikyougokazumi Osaka, JapanPosts: 11
    Oh, I'm sorry, I completely forgot you mentioned the name of the show in the original post.

    Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the show, but if it's meant for an older audience, I understand why you'd be frustrated with it.

    Now, about the children's shows. Having read your explanation, I believe there might be a cultural difference here. To be honest, I'm not familiar with American shows as well as I'd like to be, since I'm from another country, but all the stuff I was exposed to when I was a kid, had their messages spelled letter by letter in the script. They were incredibly blatant and did not even try to sugarcoat the moral lessons they were conveying. That is why I made all those assumptions in the previous post. I'm sorry if they are wrong. I obviously didn't have enough knowledge of the matter to jump to conclusions.
  • RialVestroRialVestro Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭
    There are American shows like that too but they're terrible and I hate them. Dora the Explorer is like that. She asks the audience at home to help her find the right path to get where she's exploring but there is only ever one path making it impossible for kids to ever get the wrong answer. Plus even if there is a second path the animators will highlight the correct answer right away. There are a few shows like that where the characters talk directly to the audience and ask questions. They don't even give the kids a chance to answer on their own before basically pointing it out to them. And the main character stands there for an uncomfortably long amount of time just starting at the camera. It's suppose to be a pause for the kids to attempt to find things on their own but when they instantly give you the answer right away making it super obvious where the thing is, the pause is just awkward and creepy.

    Dora also teaches Spanish which is the one good thing about that show. But the "Which path do I take" the only path available that's highlighted right now obviously. There's no other place you can go other than that clearly marked path. All that's missing is a sigh that reads "Go this way" with an arrow pointing in that direction. It'd rather give kids a Where's Waldo book instead. That'll get them to actually use their heads instead of being told where the obvious path is in a choice between one path.

    That show honestly reminds me of a Where's Waldo if it was just a picture of Waldo with no other people around him and glowing for some reason.

    Anyway, not all American shows are like that. There's a few that actually just tell interesting stories while teaching stuff without dumbing it down for anyone. Octonaughts is another one that's actually good. They teach you facts about sea creatures while telling a story involving that sea creature. The only bad thing about it that makes me hate it as an adult is the representative kid friendly songs that get stuck in my head.

    I'm not even kidding one time my step son was playing with this one toy so much that keeps singing the alphabet song that all night I kept hearing it in my head even when the toy was turned off. I actually got up off my ex's couch in the middle of the night and dug threw his toy box trying to find the thing because I thought it was going off in the box only to discover that it wasn't even turned on. I was just hearing things after hearing it on repeat all day. The next day I gave him different toys to play with. My ex, asked why I didn't take out that toy for him and then I told her because I didn't get any sleep listening to that song in my head. It needs a break.

    I don't know why, only songs I don't like ever get stuck in my head. I never get songs I actually want to listen to stuck in there, just songs that annoy me. Honestly even as a kid I never liked little kid music. I would also mute movies and shows when the song parts started and then unmute about the time I thought it was over. For a long time I didn't like music at all... which is probably why I have no musical talent what so ever... but that was only because I was only ever exposed that repetitive annoying stuff that gets stuck in my head and drives me nuts long after the song ends. Took me an insanely long time to find a genre of music that I actually liked and then ironically the first one I liked was a Christian Rock band. It's ironic because I'm Atheist. I should hate this music. Even more ironic is that I have a Christian friend who hates their music. So Christian Rock which is made for them is hated by one of them and liked by me even though it's not meant for me... Try to figure that one out.
    Ni, peng, nee-wom! Ecky, ecky, ecky, pakang, zoom-ping! Baa weep grahna weep ninny bong!
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